Talk:Money making guide/Killing Zulrah

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This talk page is for discussing the Money making guide/Killing Zulrah page.

Gp per hour calculation at bottom of the page[edit source]

The following paragraph at the bottom of the page states:

" an average of two minutes per kill and approximately 30 seconds of banking, which in turn, increases gp per hour to about 3,852,182 (not including cost of supplies). With maximum stats and gear, upwards of 35 kills per hour can be achieved, resulting in 5,617,766 gp per hour before supplies."

I have wondered about this for a bit and have even checked in the editor where these numbers come from and couldn't find out. They always seemed absurdly high and now thanks to the new kills per hour picker at the top of money making pages, one can see that these calculations are not correct and are higher than actual rates despite the fact they these calculations are in blue text with a coin symbol inferring that they are being calculated. This ought to be fixed.

ZimFlare (talk) 08:03, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Yo does anyone know where the heck those numbers come from?? Just set kills per hour to 35 and it does not match up. ZimFlare (talk) 05:14, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
It turns out there are a lot of reasons those numbers disagree. From the page source those numbers are just meant to be 24 times the value of the average kill and 35 times the value of the average kill respectively. Both the calculation for the average value of a kill and the calculator itself were flawed in different ways. The calculation they were using for the average drop value tried to give all the items a common denominator of 249, some amount of precision was lost in that process though. For example instead of 1/512 for the drop rate of a magic fang it was using effectively 1/498. That discrepancy across multiple drops lead to a lot of error when multiplied out over 35 kills. The calculator itself on the other hand was ignoring one of the possible 500 scale loot rolls.
I've fixed the problem in the calculator and I'm going to move over to the average drop value template for those numbers on the page but there is still going to be a bit of discrepancy just due to differences in how the drop rates are represented in the drop table on the Zulrah page and within the calculator. It should be less extreme though. Quadrapod (talk) 11:38, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Supply use calculation.[edit source]

The supply calculation is flawed. Using the default 20 zulrah kills and only using the equipment and switches listed in the guide it seems to suggest switching between the following gear:

Ahrim's hood.png
Imbued saradomin cape.png
Occult necklace.png
Rada's blessing 4.png
Trident of the swamp.png
Ahrim's robetop.png
Ahrim's robeskirt.png
Barrows gloves.png
Boots of brimstone.png
Ring of suffering (i).png
Armadyl helmet.png
Ava's assembler.png
Necklace of anguish.png
Rada's blessing 4.png
Toxic blowpipe.png
Armadyl chestplate.png
Armadyl chainskirt.png
Barrows gloves.png
Boots of brimstone.png
Ring of suffering (i).png

Some slots like boots and gloves aren't mentioned so I just assumed something which is adequate in both roles. With a maxed account, divine ranging potions, and an imbued heart that gives an accuracy of 65.38% and a max hit of 27 with ranged and an accuracy of 86.63% and a max hit of 34 with magic against Zulrah in their tanzanite and serpentine form respectively. Damage rolls are between 0 and the players max hit. So the average damage per shot should be half a players max. In this case 13.5 with ranged and 17 with magic. In the guide are supplies for 400 trident casts and 450 ranged attacks. In terms of damage that would equate to 400*17*0.8663 + 450*13.5*0.6538 or an average of 9,863 damage. Zulrah has 500 hp so 20 zulrahs have 10,000 hp. Meaning even in this situation with a maxed account using the best gear suggested by the guide you just don't actually have enough damage to get the kills in the listed amount of supplies even ignoring the existence of the magma phase during which you will have reduced accuracy, the times when you have less than a full heart boost, and any wasted overkill damage.

This is also assuming mystic might and eagle eye as the supplies don't actually provide enough prayer to use rigour and augury over the duration of the fight. At lvl 99 prayer each prayer dose can give at most 31 prayer points. for 40 doses that's 1240 prayer points from potions and the guide gives one teleport every 2 kills which means you could also refill your prayer to max each time you teleport back for a maximum of 990 prayer points over the hour meaning a total of 2230 prayer can be recharged. A protection prayer drains 1 point every 3 seconds and augury or rigour drain 1 point every 1.5 seconds. Which combined gives a drain of 1 point a second. The maximum prayer bonus from the equipment suggested is +9 so a final drain of 1 point every 1.3s. That's enough for 48 minutes of combat. The guide states 30 seconds for banking which means you still have at least 7 minutes where you'd be out of prayer and that is again with a maxxed account with 99 prayer who always gets exactly 99 prayer points back every time they tp home with no exceptions and ignoring the lower prayer bonus from the mage gear switch. There just aren't supplies available to realistically use rigour and augury so I had to assume they weren't used.

A player with base 70 combat stats, the minimum listed by the guide, will obviously do considerably worse only managing to get about 6,000 damage with the same equipment. I'd suggest boosting the supply usage in terms of scales, darts, and runes by about 1.3-1.5x its current quantity to give a more realistic reference for the supply cost the average player can expect with fairly optimized gear. Quadrapod (talk) 22:24, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Very minor point but the average damage should actually be between 1 and the max hit, not 0 and the max hit, since hits of 0 are covered by the accuracy calculation. So, if you had for example a max hit of 10, you'd do on average (10 + 1) / 2 damage, or 5.5 damage. This should increase your total damage per hour in your calculation. Correct me if I'm wrong though. - Xerxespersrex (talk) 23:03, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Accuracy does not cover all 0s. Even when your accuracy roll passes, your damage roll can still hit a 0. Take magic for example, if you fail the accuracy roll you "splash" your target and no hitsplat is shown. However if your accuracy roll does not fail you can still hit a 0 hitsplat. Another example is getting a freeze with ice barrage but doing no damage. See this page for more: -ZimFlare (talk) 23:28, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Interesting, I never noticed that. Thanks for teaching me. - Xerxespersrex (talk) 23:33, 13 September 2020 (UTC)