Talk:Optimal quest guide

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Training 13-30 Ranged[edit source]

The guide suggests training ranged from 13 to 30 before doing Animal Magnetism. The ranged training guide suggests doing quests for 1-32 ranged. One of them is already done, the other 2 are further down in the list. Vio (talk) 20:36, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

DttD Requires 23 Thieving[edit source]

23 Thieving is listed as a reward for Death to the Dorgeshuun, rather than a requirement - but players will need level 23 in order to pick the trapdoor midway through the quest, which will require training at least 3 levels (following the list will only bring the player to level 20 after Fight Arena). Vio (talk) 04:38, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Fixed, reordered to have sense--Nickanc (talk) 14:46, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Quest Check off boxes - 4/29/2020[edit source]

How hard would it be to implement check boxes next to quests so that we can check them off as we complete them? this may be a nooby question and I am sorry if it is, it is just an idea I had. Swintell (talk) 22:33, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

The table has the lighttable class, allowing individual rows to be highlighted via clicking on them. -Towelcat (talk) 23:04, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Sins Of The Father[edit source]

Hi all, added Sins of the Father into the quest guide. I haven't worked this out religiously or anything, but I did slot in after what I perceive to be the minimum requirements. If you want to move the quest earlier or later in this list, please do.

(talk) 05:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)Flake28

Optimization Off - 6/23/20[edit source]

How is this quest list "optimized" when you have quests like Sheep Sheerer being completed after Dragon Slayer? Then we have two easy quests just tossed in at the very end?

The point of this page is to give users a guide to follow progressing both from easy to hard, and to unlock skills/abilities/content that are useful in other quests. The later is done well, but the former is completely ignored.

Dylo (talk) 14:24, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Why is Smithing chosen as the skill for XP rewards from The Tourist Trap, and from antique lamps etc? How is this optimal?

Because the goal is to reduce the amount of time spent training any skills, you need smithing xp that you wont get otherwise so you lamp it

How is this difficult?

Also Corsair Curse should be before Big Chompy Bird Hunting, What is wrong with boosts? IcyLeoDragon (talk) 08:01, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, 2 questions IcyLeoDragon (talk) 08:02, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

A Porcine of Interest[edit source]

Where do you guys think the new quest, A Porcine of Interest should go in the Optimal quest guide? It gives 1,000 Slayer XP, and for reference the Natural history quiz miniquest is the first quest in the list to give Slayer XP, and it also gives 1,000 XP.

Vesylum (talk) 05:23, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Daddy's Home[edit source]

Could add in the Daddy's Home miniquest in place of "Train Construction from 1-5" before Darkness of Hallowvale. You'll get enough EXP to get to 5 and some other items. It's more worth doing that then just training and it wouldn't be the only miniquest in the list.

(Starshadowx2 (talk) 02:28, 6 October 2020 (UTC))

Medium Western Provinces[edit source]

Is there are reason that Medium Western Provinces Diary isn’t in the list? Are its rewards or requirements different? Pittsspotter (talk) 19:44, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Way to import quests?[edit source]

I know it'd likely be difficult if possible at all, but is there any way we could pull data from an account to automatically click all the quests they've done? I've had it happen a few times as I slowly play here and there that my page gets wiped and I never like trying to figure out which quests I skipped over and haven't done yet, or which I've done ahead of schedule and forgot about. I'm just wondering if there are any tools in the wiki we could use to even attempt this and how difficult it would be to work it out. Thank you!

HezForPrez (talk) 08:24, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

This isn't a direct answer to your question, but it may be good enough. Have you tried the "Optimal Quest Guide" Runelite plug-in from the plug-in hub? It shows you the data from the OQG with you current status, and links back to QGs for every quest. This has replaced clicking rows on the main page for me personally.

Lezed1 (talk) 12:23, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

optimize the list[edit source]

Having the player use non random boosts can greatly improve the list, in particular postponing shadow of the storm when the player has at least 30 hp and shortening travel times before having started fairytale II:

  • after elementary workshop I the player is magic lvl 17, the player can start elementary workshop II straight after elem workshop II, do the whole quest till almost the end (during this time stats self restore), take a mature wmb for the last step and do that quest
  • by doing elementary workshop II in this way, we both take less time for the player because it is done in the same spot the player already is in and we can postpone Shadow of the Storm to at least after death to the dorgeshuun. At that point, the player can at least face agrith naar with 20 magic (curse and bind) and 27 hps!
  • furthermore, after doing elementary workshop II, the player can do making history and, after demon slayer, shield of arrav, then go to Historian Minas and collect the 3x1000 exp lamps on woodcutting, shortening the otherwise super long training session from 26 to 36, we can possibly put the acquirement of 100 kudos and bone voyage here before woodcutting training, so to unlock a fast training method for everything earlier resulting in a shorter, thus more optimal training session.

Can I propose an improved version of the guide using sometimes some boosts? I know EWII is boostable and shadow of the storm so early is a bit daring.--Nickanc (talk) 21:36, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

I made a proposal of change at User:Nickanc/Sandbox. It seems to me more optimal in the sense less time spent training, it makes use of micromanaging earlier quests to obtain bonuses later (like collecting ingredients for two redberry pies early on during questing and have the player bake them so that we pass a level for a few xps and so the player can skip a cooking training session or telling for a few selected bosses how the player should fight certain monsters in order to take that xps into account). The principles are roughly:
  • The least time training not questing early on
  • first unlock transportation asap but not as in the current guide, do Lost city with 1 ranged and 10 hp.
  • second unlock protection prayers asap, avodi situations like the current guide with Shadow of the Storm with 27hp, 19 magic and no protection prayers.
  • make use of the achievement diary and museum xp lamps unlike the current guide that does not.
I hope you all like it, I'd like to replace the current table with the one in the sandbox.--Nickanc (talk) 16:35, 22 May 2021 (UTC)
Hey there I just had a look at your improvements and I can agree with quite a lot of your comments. Re-ordering to optimise for not only reducing skilling time (which should still be the main goal in my opinion), but also try to optimise a bit more for transportation methods and protection prayers, sounds like a good idea to me. However I do have some parts where I don't think your changes should be made to the article:
I don't think micro-managing the early quests should be done on this guide. The Optimal Quest Guide (OQG from now on) for f2p quests does have this micro-managing, but that's simply because there are literally no strict level requirements for any f2p quests, so the same goals of the main OQG don't work for the f2p version. Focusing on least time spent completing is a useful alternative to optimise the guide to. Because the main OQG is already incredibly dense with information, I think micro-managing the combinations of quests like that just makes it much harder to follow, I think.
My opinion about the structure of this guide is that the guide should just indicate a possible order, which is one path that optimises for the least skilling, and delegates the actual quest strategy to the individual quest guides. That way, people can simply open up the OQG page, click the first non-highlighted quest guide in the table, and work on that. If the table includes the sub-quest notes about combining multiple quests, it would be necessary to have multiple guides open at the same time (both OQG and the quest) which would make it less accessible to the average user, I think.
However, optimising for travel time between quests does sound like a good idea, for as far as that's possible. For example listing the natural history quiz right before Gertrude's Cat does sound like a good idea to make it easier to do them right after each other.
Regarding boosts, I think there could be an argument made for using non-random boosts. However, I think that should be limited to boosts that are simple to obtain with the levels of the player. Even though the main OQG is not made for ironmen, I think it's best to keep it accessible to ironmen as well. A mature mind bomb is a fairly rare item, so I would definitely not use that in the OQG itself. A regular mind bomb does sound okay though, so I am in favour of using that if it saves training time.
To me, it seems reasonable to recommend shop-bought boosts to players, or boosts like an agility potion if the player has gotten 34 herblore at that point, etc. I think buying something on the GE should not be a requirement to follow this guide. PS: A magic potion boosts more than a mature wizard's mind bomb, so if anything that should be used.
Other than that I think the addition of achievement diary and varrock museum skill lamps is a good idea. I think the original recommendations of the skills to choose for XP lamp rewards would also be a good one to re-evaluate, partially based on how much XP the upcoming grind for that skill is, and partially based on the difficulty (effort, time, and/or cost-wise).
I think it's very good to have someone like you who is prepared to give reorganising this guide a go, so I'm loving the work you've done so far! I'd be happy to help brainstorm some of the aspects of the re-ordering of the quests as well if you want. Let me know if you have any questions about my feedback, and also let me know whenever you've got a new version of the OQG! Joeytje50 talk Santa hat.png 00:32, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
Oh another thing I just noticed is that you included a Hunter experience reward for Architectural Alliance, based on the experience gained for digging up sand worms. I think it's not feasible to keep track of experience gained during and/or in-between quests, other than one-off experience drops (e.g. the guaranteed Willow check-health XP during Enlightened Journey). Listing the experience gained while getting favour as a "reward" also looks a bit weird, I think, considering it's actually a kind of training method. The way I would format the hunter experience gained while doing AA is something like this: In the quest's description, put "Use the Antique lamp on Agility. Complete the Piscarilius favour by hunting sandworms, which should result in level 20 Hunter", and then put the "Train Hunter from level 12 to level 20" line right underneath that to signify that you trained to level 20 hunter. That way, the active training and the direct rewards from quests are kept separate. Joeytje50 talk Santa hat.png 00:47, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
Another small remark: The actions that are not quests (such as upgrading the workbench) should probably be made a bolded sub-header, like the train messages. I would replace it with ! Build [[wooden shelves 3]] in your [[player-owned house]] in for its access to [[Cup of tea (white)|tea]] that boosts +2 [[Construction]]., which seems cleaner to me (removing the diary comment considering the micro-managing point I mentioned earlier). This distinguishes it from the completion of actual quests. Things like one-off actions (like unlocking balloon destinations, or building the Museum camp) would be good to include. However, if it's not a miniquest, I wouldn't call it that; I would change it to Unlock: Build [[Museum Camp]] and then keep the rest of that row's information (xp reward and description) the same. Joeytje50 talk Santa hat.png 01:00, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
IMHO, I agree micro-managing the combinations of quests makes it much harder to follow, because, as you say, one has to have several open guides and we can scrap that, however I am unsure some other micromanagement as what to build in the PoH or give Thurgo 2 redberry pies baked by the player during The Knight's Sword so that on Ghosts Ahoy the player has 20 cooking puzzles the reader because it is still reading just the OQG and the quest guide. Howver, for further readability, I'd frame this latter form of micromanagement as suggestion, but I'd stop assuming the guide has been followed in that, while scrap altogether the multiple quest at a time micromanagement (just a note like "if you are familiar with these quests, you can start them together" but not going further like "when in the wizard's tower go to sedridor, talk him, kill a chicken, retrieve the skull, go to mizgog etc) with one notable exception for the big gain it gives: I'd keep the start of fairytale II micromanaged inside the Fairytale I entry in this guide because of the immense relevance of fairy rings travel. The travel times after FT I are based upon fairy rings and proximity (probably not optimal but i took a bit of care). As for the magic potion instead of the mature wmb, you are totally right, me too alcoholic on rs :D--Nickanc (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
Another note on the non multiple quests micromanagement: as long as the player is lvl 3 and poor imho it makes sense to tell the player to make several extra pots of flour during cook's assistant or when one should mine clay early or get a pie shell from respawn points instead of anywhere else, I think of it also as helping newbies figure out things early on, whereas later on the guide will stop saying anything altogether about this because we assume the player has developed the means to do that, for instance an emerald is needed for a taste of hope, the guide is already not telling the player how to get it. We can set a threshold point like "from this point onward the guide does not tell the player where to find things or gather multiple stuff for further quest as they are so distant among training sessions that it makes no sense".--Nickanc (talk) 15:06, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

(outdent) I think it is imho completed at User:Nickanc/Sandbox. It tells the player a lot especially early on but no multiple quests at a time so it can be followed with 2 tabs (the OQG and the QG of each quest). I chose another color for activities that are neither training nor quests (diaries, setting the PoH early on for Cold war, the museum camp etc), but we may change style differently too. I set up a warning about marks of grace after underground pass following a discord suggestion. I agree on boosts, I have rewritten pieces so that the guide until late in the game prescribes boosts and a non-GE method to get them, whereas I left untouched late game quests (after rag and bone 2), which demand boosts but do not tell how (as far as I checked at those levels they are almost all unlocked by either drops or cooking or herblore). For imp catcher beads, I chose to keep a structure alike free to play guide: we tell non ironmen there is the GE and both ironmen and non ironmen that they can catch imps while in musa point. As for the upcoming quest, IMHO, A Kingdom Divided in my list should be put before lunar diplomacy with the lamp on slayer but i havent written its entry. I'd like to push the draft on the page if there are no objections.--Nickanc (talk) 15:00, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

New draft[edit source]

After long discord discussions a new draft is open for everybody to edit. The list has to be made with the following priorities, ordered from most important down:

  1. Unlock fairy rings early on
  2. 43 prayer before quests with real fights,
  3. Minimal training possible early on, in particular minimal slayer training.

It is sensible to say all changes are to be made on that sandbox and then change the page itself, in order not to do mistakes on highly visited page as a few hours ago.--Nickanc (talk) 02:13, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Easy Karamja Diary[edit source]

This is suggested to be done to help get Fishing to 9 but a player would only have 36/40 Mining required at that point. Not sure where this step should go instead, but it probably shouldn't be there. Wheatstone (talk) 04:32, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

the lamps in reality are used to attain prayer 43 (which makes both questing and training slayer easier), but via questing. karamja lamp on fishing to do Fishing contest, which allows recipe for disaster dwarf which allows ghosts ahoy (well the player is -154xp cooking with rewards on ghosts ahoy but if he bakes the redberry pies for thurgo or cooks anything during recipe for disaster, ghosts ahoy is doable without training). the mining lamps are used to do watchtower and later architectural alliance, watchtower gives magic 33, magic 33 gives us the giant dwarf and the slice of ham that is prayer. lamps on ranged aim at spirits of the elid first and at kudos (151 kudos = 4000xp prayer) later. We could lamp prayer directly, but this is a quest guide so if we lamp other stuff that allows us not to train those skills and have access to quests rewarding similar amounts of prayer xp via questing is preferable. However, as you may read in the previous discussion, another draft is on the way bc a discussion on discord revealed that it seems better to have train firemaking to 30 instead of 17 and do sea slug for early fishing xp, thus the best use of the karamja lamp becomes slayer (slow skill to train). If you want to work on that draft, see discussion just above, feel free to edit the sandbox.--Nickanc (talk) 10:28, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

trimmed, not trimmed etc[edit source]

The guide had achievement diaries long before the new version tells the player where to put the lamps, but it seems there are disagreements upon whether they should be there or not on discord, so I see several possible options:

  1. We dont aim for trimmed and no achievement diaries ever. that means we tell the player "train slayer" not "use that lamp on it" even if this results in more training of more things
  2. We dont aim for trimmed but those achievement diaries whose max skill reqs are below max quest skill req are in and their xps used.
  3. We dont aim for trimmed but both those achievement diaries whose max skill reqs are below max quest skill req are in and their xps used, and are in all those diaries whose extra requirements are reasonably faster than slayer 69 and would result in a net benefit lamping it.
  4. We aim for trimmed (thus have to include also hard and elite tasks, but thats easy, all the rest is around grandmaster quests - that is why it wasnt written in the first place).
  5. We aim for trimmed but optionally, ie the skill reqs exceeding max quest skill req that do not fulfill any quest but achievements have to write they are meant for that,
  6. We have a guide aiming for trimmed and one not.

Status quo is something between 2 and 3 as previous guide. What do we want to do? Please let's have any change sandboxed first, there is one sandbox dedicated at User:nickanc/Sandbox which aims to improve order open for everybody to edit.--Nickanc (talk) 15:25, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

I believe this page should achieve precisely what it is named. That is, it details the optimal guide for completing all the quests. If an achievement diary is going to speed this goal up (e.g. varrock armour is extremely useful for grinding out the 68 mining req), then it should be added. If a diary does not help speed up the time to complete all quests, then adding it would make the quest guide less 'optimal', and so shouldn't be added IMO. byro009 (talk) 15:35, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Medium Desert Tasks and Enakhra's Lament[edit source]

I've been following this guide on a new account and have found a bit of an issue with the order of these two tasks/quests. One of the medium desert tasks requires you to teleport to Enakhra's Temple with the Camulet, which is rewarded upon completing Enakhra's Lament. Currently the medium tasks are listed before Enakhra's Lament, which makes following the guide here impossible. I'm unsure about how things could be reshuffled to address this, but I thought it'd be worth pointing out since it's a pretty significant roadblock. Liathri (talk) 02:33, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Ugh, well it is solved in the other experimental order (User:Nickanc/Sandbox), either I push that or find a way to rework the quest order at that point keeping the current order.--Nickanc (talk) 08:42, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

49 Firemaking required for Medium Falador Diary[edit source]

Per the guide, you'd only have 31 Firemaking at the point you do the medium Falador diary. However, 49 Firemaking is required to light the bullseye lantern. Sworthor (talk) 17:43, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

This version of the guide User:Nickanc/Sandbox already solved this problem and kept some optimality (optimality being defined as never training slayer till the last quest), but there was no consensus in using it, however I would push it or a trimmed version with less words of it, since at the very least it is not broken. I don't think small fixes like moving a training requirement would keep optimality, but that depends upon how you define optimality.--Nickanc (talk) 18:23, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Quests missing from list[edit source]

Bear Your Soul

The Enchanted Key

Family Pest

Mage Arena I

Mage Arena II

[Hard achievement diaries]

[Elite achievement diaries]

Tdy (talk) 19:31, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

None of those are quests. While they could be added to the page, there isn't a general consensus on how things should be lain out with regard to those. There is some work that was done on [[1]] however if you want to check that out. Jakesterwars (talk) 19:40, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
The previous discussion on the scope of the list ended without consensus so we are left with this one incomplete in the main namespace and others competing. If there is consensus, after christmas holidays (let's take orthodox christmas on Jan 6 as last date), when the player base decreases again, I can push the other list or a trimmed version of it. However remember the other list too is not about zero to max cape but aims to get the quest cape the fastest, so it reshuffles the order a bit but also adds a romp through some hard diaries more with the purpose of lamping slayer, which is the slowest. If you personally want to do all hard or all the elite ones or the remaining miniquests, which afaik are not required for quest cape, just follow User:Nickanc/Sandbox and add the remaining stuff at the end. Or is any of these needed for quest cape or achievements? If so, which quests or achievements need these other miniquests?--Nickanc (talk) 15:09, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Ropes[edit source]

The page states "Players might want to grab at least 3 ropes for future use in the Karamja General Store, while doing this quest." However it does not seem like the General Store sells these any more, and may instead need to go to the one to the west (just after the small crossing to the other part of the island. 18:11, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I removed it from the guide. IMO, ropes are bought best from ardougne general store, as this is easily accessed with the ardy cloak. But this is micro-management that this guide should not be bothering you with. MrWG (talk) 13:25, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
For completeness, Fjara pointed out on my talk page that there is a rope spawn in that store, one should not buy it. Nevertheless it is micro-management. MrWG (talk) 13:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Am I Going Mad...[edit source]

Okay so I began following this guide, and for the first and up until Waterfall, it sort of made sense. Then the guide wants me to go do the Tree Gnome Village quest, which the wiki says I need to be able to kill a level 112 Khazard warlord... my combat level is 28.5 after the Waterfall quest, of which the recommended is that I be level 45 combat level........

And on top of that, I look at other guides and they're in a vastly different order than this, because this guide has you doing what would be considered level 3 quests as like you 80th quest or something. I am so... confused. 16:26, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Although the order of this guide has changed, this has indeed remained in this reworked version of the guide. The quest guide for Tree Gnome Village gives instructions on how to use magic to relatively easily safespot the warlord, making it a relatively easy battle, provided you bring enough runes.
Regarding those quests that are very easy, but are listed fairly late: the reason for that is that those quests don't generally add very much to your account up to that point. However, if you have reasons for moving up a quest to an earlier point, you can leave a message here suggesting the change you'd like to see, so that others may share their opinions about your suggestion. Joeytje50 talk Santa hat.png 18:35, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion of moving some quests up[edit source]

Some quests are very easy and appear late in the guide (as noted in the discussion above). I suggest we move these up to just before/after Tears of Guthix, as having these quest points is an arguable advantage for that minigame, and these quests are quite easy. I highly recommend moving the following quests to that point: Romeo & Juliet, Pirate treasure. One could also think of moving the following quests to that point, although these have bosses that might be difficult with the current stats: Corsair curse (one does have protect from magic) and Below Ice Mountain (Maybe one wants protect from melee for this one). And the following quest might be added there but have no reason to be there compared to other quests: Tail of two cats. MrWG (talk) 13:51, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for thinking along and suggesting these changes. I edited the guide to move up Pirate's Treasure and Romeo & Juliet, because they are indeed a fairly easy 7 quest points that add to your Tears of Guthix timer. I don't necessarily agree with moving up any of the other quests, though, because around the point where you do ToG in this guide, they aren't necessarily quicker to do than most of the other quests that are listed around this point. Also, they only give 2, 1, and 2 quest points each (respectively in your order of mentioning), which is just as much as just doing the two quests that are currently listed right after Tears of Guthix (In Search of the Myreque and Shades of Mort'ton). At that point, I'd rather focus on getting more useful quests out of the way, in terms of experience rewards or unlocks. If others disagree with my assessment I'd love to hear though. Joeytje50 talk Santa hat.png 15:38, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Rag and Bone Man II[edit source]

Rag and Bone Man II is currently directly after My Arm's Big Adventure but well before Skippy and the Mogres (miniquest). Within the guide for Rag and Bone Man II, Skippy and the Mogres is a requirement. This is because a Mogre bone is required, and without completing Skippy then you can't access Mogres so Bone Man II should be moved to past that. Unless I am mistaken, which the Rag and Bone Man II guide should be updated to reflect that. There is also the chance that you are just saying to make sure the quest is started by that point? Demunkun (talk) 00:25, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you I just edited that, good night! ABetterUsername (talk) 00:34, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Slayer Progress Issue (Varrock Museum)[edit source]

I may be missing something here... But after reaching the section of the guide in which you finally collect your 3 XP lamps from Historian Minas in the Varrock Museum it says you should use them all on Slayer. Which in theory would bring your Slayer level from 14-21 as shown. However, you are unable to use these XP lamps on skills lower than level 20. GP Enjoyer (talk) 03:04, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Hey there, thanks for letting us know! You're absolutely correct about this. To prevent people from getting stuck here in the future, I've moved around some things, meaning you have level 19 slayer from quest rewards at this point, instead of 14. The remaining 170 experience can then be obtained by a very short training session. I hope this hasn't caused too many issues for your account, and I appreciate informing us about this! Joeytje50 talk Santa hat.png 11:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

No problems! I ended up just grinding up a bit of slayer. It was a nice break from questing. Thanks for the guide and keep up the great work. GP Enjoyer (talk)

Agility level required for Mourning's end Part 2[edit source]

I feel the 58-59 agility you have at mournings end part 2 is about 5-10 levels to low? I failed the first agility test many times now using agility potion to boost to 61-62. According to the quest guide you would need 70+ to somewhat reliably pass the wall. OcwilC 23:14, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes 58-59 is indeed maybe a bit low. When I did this edit the lvl you had at that point was lowered from 60-61 to 58-59.
Note that it is sort-of doable with low agility: you only need to cross the annoying obstacle twice when following the guide, and trying this many times is less time consuming (albeit maybe a lot more frustrating) than training 6-8 agility levels. The rationale used in this guide is mostly that low-lvl skilling is slower than high-lvl skilling, so doing a quest that is a bit harder with the low lvl is "better" than trying to train these lvls at a low lvl (I am not sure if I agree with this though, but it is the viewpoint of the guide).
Of course, we could either tell people to train some more agility before MEP2, or move MEP2 a bit further up where you have had some more agility training (e.g. just after Making Friends with My Arm, which should've had ppl train agility to 68).
I'd love to hear if you or someone else has an opinion on this. I propose moving MEP2 to just after MFwMA because it is not a big requirement for anything other than Sote. For now I'll just recommend some agility training on MEP2. MrWG (talk) 09:13, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
I think a small disclaimer you either can use summer pies or train a couple of levels is probably good enough for people to make their own decision on how they will tackle it.
OcwilC 11:04, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Like it is now?MrWG (talk) 12:17, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes!, and i just wanna say your doing an amazing job! OcwilC 19:05, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Recommending full graceful[edit source]

This section is in response to comments left in the previous section.

@MrWG: I must say I don't entirely agree with the changes you've made regarding agility and MEP2, but before I start changing things without discussing it I'd like to leave my thoughts first. I think the change removing the experience from the full graceful grind is not a good idea, partially due to the issue raised in this section. Admittedly, there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus about it in the forum threads about this guide, but based on opinions I've heard in the Discord I do think people generally agree that training agility before Underground Pass and MEP2 is sensible. Just like people are free to choose their alternative order whenever they want to (temporarily or permanently) skip a particular quest, I think assuming people actually follow the advice of getting full graceful is a good idea, considering the quests right after it practically require a decent agility level anyway. Even if people decide they refuse to get graceful, getting the same amount of agility xp is still a very good idea at this point in the guide. I'm curious to hear if you (and others) agree.

Regardless, I think reducing the additional info at MEP2 to just "Consider training agility before doing this quest to improve success rates at passing the agility obstacle in the puzzle." would be better. The info about summer pies should be on the quest guide itself, and the rest is in my opinion unnecessary detail for this info. Joeytje50 talk Santa hat.png 22:37, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

The reason I did remove the xp drop is because this part of the guide was the only place where the text said "recommended" but the calculations included the xp. In my opinion, one should either Recommend to do something and not include the xp of that action in the guide, or state something as a step, in which case including the xp in the calculation is sensible. I am not going to burn my fingers on whether one wants to recommend graceful or require it on this guide, but for removing the xp I just followed the guideline.
There is still a recommendation to obtain graceful, and including the xp in the calculating will not change that. The person that asked the other question would've still ignored the recommendation, and then be confused why his lvl was so low.
Besides, note that my edit was way before this topic was added, so I added a section header per guidelines.
I never said training agility on these points is not sensible, it is still recommended.
If you want to change the advise on MEP2 slightly, just do.
Cheers! MrWG (talk) 22:54, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Good to see you're such a fan of being bold. I just wanted to prevent having edits going back and forth on different approaches, without first discussing it a little to make sure we're on the same page if possible. Regarding the wording and approach regarding graceful, I guess I'll ask around for other peoples' opinions a bit more, so for now I'll just leave it as you left it. Joeytje50 talk Santa hat.png 23:02, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Kudos count[edit source]

can someone verify the amount of kudos you should have at the "Unlock: Varrock Museum Kudos" step after 20 slayer? I think it might be 113, but not 100% sure. history quiz + finds + (rune mystery, soa, grand tree, hazeel, making history, merlins crystal, priest in peril) i think that is everything up to this point. i dont know if it actually changes anything for the future of the guide Fjaratalk 15:44, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

this editor seems to agree with you, and I also see no reason why you could be wrong. MrWG (talk) 09:20, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Archive talk page?[edit source]

The talk page is becoming a bit lengthy and I see not many discussions that are still very relevant. Should we archive most/all discussions? Are there any discussions that are relevant/should be kept? MrWG (talk) 12:52, 5 July 2022 (UTC)